Here, award-winning sound supervisor/re-recording mixer Emma Bortignon talks about creating unique sounds for each possession and designing tense, tonal ambiences, what went into the sound of a dying kangaroo, how the mix evolved during the post process, how she mixed sounds into the surrounds to keep the audience on edge, and so much more!
Interview by Jennifer Walden, photos courtesy of A24; Emma Bortignon
A24 has built a solid reputation for featuring indie films with a unique flair that scratch the itch for atypical filmmaking. Over the years, A Sound Effect has covered more than a few: Everything Everywhere All At Once, Bodies Bodies Bodies, Pearl, Midsommar, Marcel the Shell With Shoes On, Hereditary, and It Comes at Night .
This summer, A24 released the Australian-based horror film Talk to Me from first-time feature directors Danny and Michael Philippou. Talk to Me had its world premiere at Sundance 2023 in the Midnight category and its wide theatrical release in the US in July, so far earning $46 million at the box office in the United States and Canada alone – making it A24’s highest-grossing horror film (domestically). Its success has led to A24’s announcement that a sequel is in the works, Talk 2 Me. (You can still see Talk to Me in theaters, or watch it on demand.)
Talk to Me tells the tale of Mia, a teenage girl mourning the death of her mother, who gets in with a group of friends that like to interact with the spirit world via a mysterious hand statue believed to be the embalmed hand of a medium. The kids become temporarily possessed by a spirit that they ‘let in’ but the connection breaks if they let go before 90 seconds. What happens if you hold on longer? In her desperation to connect with her dead mother, Mia pushes the limits and her reality becomes a nightmare.
Here, award-winning supervising sound editor/sound designer/re-recording mixer Emma Bortignon talks about getting started with directors Danny and Michael Philippou during pre-production and how that impacted the sound of the final film, deciding on the level of brutality the violence should have, what went into the sound of ‘the hand,’ how the sound of each possession (from effects to vocals) was unique, how the sound of Mia’s possessions escalated over the course of the film, and more. Plus, she talks about her approach to the mix and using surrounds in a horror film, and how the sound of the film evolved during the mix phase.
Talk To Me | Official Trailer HD | A24
When did you get started on the film, and what did you start on first? Also, what were the directors’ (Danny and Michael Philippou) goals for the sound? Did they have specific references for what they like (or don’t like) in terms of sound for horror films?
Sound supervisor/re-recording mixer Emma Bortignon
Emma Bortignon (EB): I began my work on the film during pre-production, and my initial meetings with Danny and Michae, and sound recordist Nick Steele revolved around the approach to sound recording. We focused on strategies to capture the best possible audio during the production phase and maintained open and collaborative communication throughout this period, which proved to be a valuable and productive experience.
We discussed various horror films as references, but our main goal was to ensure that the film’s soundtrack was as impactful as possible. We aimed to bring the story and characters to life through sound design, engaging the audience fully in the film’s experience.
The film opens with a house party, and Cole is desperately trying to get to his brother Duckett, who he finds hiding in a locked bedroom. Their meeting leads to the first act of violence in the film, and the audience’s first impression of what to expect in terms of gore, violence, and how brutal that will feel. Can you talk about your approach to sound for this moment and the level of brutality you wanted to convey to the audience through sound?
*Watch the opening sequence here*
EB: For the opening shot of the film, which takes you through a lively house party, our goal was to create an immersive, dynamic soundscape that pulled the audience right into the heart of the party. We wanted it to be loud, vibrant, and an exciting start to the film. We put a lot of effort into recording loop group for that opening shot as Cole navigates his way through the party and into the house. This allowed us to replicate Cole’s movement in the mix, with plenty of chatter, shouting, and reactions to Cole that panned past him and back into the room as he encountered different partygoers to make the moment feel alive.
The brutality of the scene was a teaser of what lies ahead, so we needed it to be intense and visceral.
We applied a similar mix approach to the music, mixing the party music’s sound based on Cole’s location to the speakers in the party area, by changing the EQ, panning, and volume around every corner until we eventually arrived at the source of the music.
The brutality of the scene was a teaser of what lies ahead, so we needed it to be intense and visceral. The ‘sching’ sound of the knife, when Mum is slicing carrots in the kitchen as Cole walks by, foreshadows the fates of both Duckett and Cole. We made sure we recorded a lot of screaming and chaos during the loop group session, to build up the reaction of the partygoers to the violence they witnessed.
Mia goes to pick up Riley, and as they’re driving back to his house they come across an injured kangaroo in the road. It’s making this terrifying crying/dying sound – very creepy! This is probably a stupid question, but since we don’t have kangaroos here in the States, was that a real kangaroo sound?? And if so, what was the source for that? (I’m sure you weren’t out recording injured kangaroos…hopefully!)
EB: One of my earliest tasks was creating the sound of the dying kangaroo. Danny and Michael wanted a sound that could be played to Mia (played by Sophie Wilde) before shooting the scene, so she could react authentically. They wanted the kangaroo to sound like it was crying out for help, which meant it needed to sound pained, close to death but also human-like, with a payoff towards the end of the film in mind.
Danny and Michael wanted a sound that could be played to Mia…before shooting the scene, so she could react authentically.
Danny had heard the sound of a dying kangaroo before and had a very specific memory of it. And while we have lots of kangaroos in Australia, the sound of them ‘crying’ and in pain isn’t a sound that is commonly experienced. To re-create this sound for the film, I looked for animals with a mouth, throat, and chest structure similar to a kangaroo to achieve a recording that was as close to the kangaroo sound as possible, and found a small, very vocal dog to perform for me. That recording was then processed to match the pitch and depth heard in the film. No animals were harmed during the filmmaking process!
What went into the sound of the hand itself? Through foley, you give the audience a description of how this thing might feel, its texture, and what it’s made of, and through effects, how heavy it is physically and how significant it is metaphorically…
EB: Danny and Michael wanted the hand to have a tangible weight, a sense of solidity. Whenever the hand is placed on a surface, you’ll hear a low-frequency impact sound, adding to its ominous and weighty presence. When the hand is kicked across the hospital room floor, it is accompanied by the sound of concrete dragging on the ground, again, to give it a perceived sense of weight.
The choice of a ceramic mug with its abrasive texture produced a raspy yet delicate sound that accompanied every touch of the hand.
We aimed to make the hand’s interactions with people distinctly audible, capturing even the most subtle touches and handling sounds. To achieve this effect, I recorded the handling of a ceramic mug, meticulously syncing my hand movements to match each interaction with the hand. The choice of a ceramic mug with its abrasive texture produced a raspy yet delicate sound that accompanied every touch of the hand. This simple approach gave the hand its unique sonic character.
What was your approach to the sound of the dead entities (spirits) that people see when they hold the hand and perform the ritual? How did you want the audience to feel, and how did sound help to achieve that?
EB: The sound design for each of the spirits was deeply tied to their individual backstories. Each spirit had its unique history, including the circumstances of their deaths, which influenced how we portrayed them sonically within each scene.
Each spirit had its unique history, including the circumstances of their deaths, which influenced how we portrayed them sonically…
For example, when the first spirit possesses Mia, we hear her gasping and choking on water, as this spirit had met its end through drowning.
Another instance is when Mia interacts with the young girl in the hospital, who had been buried alive. During this encounter, you can hear the subtle sound of dirt falling around the room, a haunting reminder of the spirit’s tragic fate.
Once a spirit was “let in” to a room, I created a shift in the sound of the environment. The room’s existing sounds and ambiences were dulled or muted, and a low-frequency drone was introduced. Occasionally we mixed in some indistinct spirit whispers that were panned to circle around the room. This subtle change was designed to make the audience feel the shift in the space, more than hear these elements, creating a sense of unease and tension. It’s a subtle yet effective way to enhance the atmosphere and emphasize the supernatural.
What went into your vocal processing for the possessed characters (when they “let in” the spirit)?
EB: When working with the possessed characters, we wanted the spirit voices to feel like they were a mix of the person being possessed and the spirit itself, as if the spirit resided deep within them. Instead of relying on heavy processing to find the sound, we focused on capturing the right vocal performance.
We re-recorded the spirit voices to match the possessed character’s performance in each scene.
We re-recorded the spirit voices to match the possessed character’s performance in each scene. While we kept some consistency, each re-recorded spirit performance had slight variations from the original, giving us an imperfect blend of the two voices. Occasionally, we altered the pitch of a few words from the spirit voice to add some contrast and variation. We constantly revisited these scenes and worked on refining the sound of the spirit voices throughout the final mix, each time making very subtle adjustments until it sounded seamless and naturally occurring.
Each possession is unique – how did you handle that in terms of sound? What were some similar sounds for each possession, and what were some singular sounds you created specifically for just one possession? For example, Mia’s first try at the hand was very different from Daniel’s first try at the hand. Can you compare those two possessions in terms of your sound work?
EB: In the film, Mia’s perspective is central, especially during the possessions. When Mia is possessed and exists within the spirit world, we shift the focus to her viewpoint sonically, muting the background ambience, introducing atmospheres and filling the space with low tones and drones, immersing us, the audience, in the spirit world along with her. This created a distinct possession space from Mia’s perspective.
For other possessions observed by Mia – where other characters entered the spirit world – like Daniel’s possession, for instance, we maintained a static environment and didn’t remove the scene’s underlying atmosphere. The approach to each possession varied based on Mia’s POV and her observation of the events.
There’s a fun sequence where the group of kids are taking turns with the hand. What was your approach to creating the sound for the music-driven scene?
EB: The credit here goes entirely to Danny and Michael and their choice of music for this scene, which was decided upon before shooting. The scene cleverly conveys the characters having fun with the hand before things take a turn for the worst and a possession doesn’t go as planned. This mirrors the kids’ theme of experimenting with substances and having fun while ignoring the dangers, adding an intriguing parallel narrative. Despite the enjoyment we see on screen, there’s a deeper layer of complexity for the audience to ponder.
Picture Editor Geoff Lamb expertly cut the scene which became a wonderful framework to punctuate the scene’s timing and rhythm with selective sound effects to add another layer to the dynamic.
Riley’s possession was the most violent. Can you talk about your sound work for this sequence?
EB: In this particular scene, we went all-in on the sound of violence. The intention was to create a deep unease and immerse the audience in the raw and unsettling details. We wanted you to feel like you were right there with Riley, experiencing every gruesome moment as he attempted to gouge out his eye and endured the violent crashes of his face against the table. This scene serves as the turning point in the film, where interactions with the hand have gone too far. Therefore, it was crucial for the sound of violence to reach a peak.
To achieve this, we incorporated a mix of visceral-sounding elements, including the squelching of pigs’ blood and the sounds of fish guts, to help create a chilling experience.
One technique we used in this scene is a well-tested trick: cutting out all sound just before the initial impact.
Additionally, we emphasized the impact of Riley’s face on the wooden table by adding sub frequencies, splintering wood cracks, and bone crunches to intensify the physicality of the violence and make sure the audience was fully immersed in the unsettling atmosphere of the scene.
One technique we used in this scene is a well-tested trick: cutting out all sound just before the initial impact. This pause in sound, just after Riely’s last inhale sound, creates a sense of anticipation, like a baited breath, right before the shock of his first face-smash. It effectively elicits a gasp from the audience before delving into the intense violence of the scene.
What went into the sound of Riley’s hospital room? (I loved your design for the raspy, wheezy sound of his ventilator!)
EB: The sound of the hospital ventilator is a recording of the prop ventilator used on set. What makes it particularly interesting is its distinctive quality, which paradoxically sounds suffocating and similar to wheezing. We used this sound as the lifeline that keeps Riley alive and also as the source sound for crafting the background ambience within the hospital room. It added depth to the ambience of the hospital scenes and helped transform Riley’s room into a possessed space.
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Mia is the most troubled by the possessions. She’s obsessed with performing the hand ritual, and does it even when no one else is there, like when she “summons” her dead mother. Can you talk about Mia’s possessions, and how they evolve sound-wise thru the film?
EB: In horror, sound plays a unique role that can go beyond what you see in the frame. It involves breaking the fourth wall and using sound in ways that are not necessarily possible in other genres or straight-drama films. For instance, we can introduce a loud impact jump scare sound into a horror film scene without assuming that it’s heard by the characters, which allows us to navigate between different worlds and realities seamlessly. We can transition from dream sequences to possession scenes and then back to reality, controlling when and where sounds creep in and out of perception, even introducing the sounds of a character’s breathing to intensify intimate moments without being bound to what the picture is doing.
In horror, sound plays a unique role that can go beyond what you see in the frame. It involves breaking the fourth wall and using sound in ways that are not necessarily possible in other genres…
Shifting between Mia’s subjective perspective and the audience’s objective view enabled us to experiment with spatial sound design. In a dream sequence where Mia confronts the traumatic memory of her mother’s passing, we incorporated scratching sounds on the walls and door, symbolizing her mother’s splintered fingernails. This sound, rooted in Mia’s past, haunts her throughout the film, acting as a recurring sonic motif, evoking an eerie presence without the need for visual cues.
When Mia awakens and becomes possessed by the singing woman hidden in the corner, we pushed the panning of the spirit’s singing voice. It originated from the back of the room, and we carefully balanced how far back to place it. We aimed to avoid causing the audience to physically turn and track the sound within the space, which could disrupt their engagement with the film.
This sound… haunts her throughout the film, acting as a recurring sonic motif, evoking an eerie presence without the need for visual cues.
However, in this particular moment, we wanted to create a sense of being in the room with Mia. If the audience did turn around, hopefully it was because they were creeped out by the singing and felt an eerie presence from hearing the sound.
In the hospital scene where Mia is visiting Riley, she’s lured into the bathroom by the spirit impersonating her mother; we aimed to transform the sonic experience of that space. We altered the source of the door banging, manipulated Mia’s movement within the room, and crafted her auditory experience to heighten the tension. Low tones, focused footstep sounds on water, and the flickering sounds of lights were key elements we used to intensify what Mia was hearing in that environment.
Each of these scenes was a unique sonic world unto itself. It was crucial to ensure their distinctiveness within the context of the film and the broader story while still maintaining a cohesive sound design. Achieving this required extensive work and repeated viewing, examining how scenes and their sound related to one another.
We often took this approach with particularly loud or quiet moments because you only truly grasp their interplay when you step away from the mixing desk and listen to them within the context of the film as a whole.
During one ritual, Mia is in Riley’s hospital room and she connects with a little dead girl. The dead girl lets Mia in (instead of Mia letting the dead girl in). What went into the sound of this sequence?
EB: Designing this scene was quite a challenge. Danny’s directive was clear: it needed to be exceptionally loud to immerse the audience in the depth of Mia’s pain and guilt for allowing Riley’s extended possession. It needed to sound as extreme as the images it was accompanying.
I always felt uneasy knowing this scene was coming up, as it was intended to be an auditory assault…
I began by layering harsh and distorted elements, incorporating demonic screams, feedback, and synthesized white noise. The sound of Riley’s screams added context to this intense moment.
During the mix, we approached it methodically, focusing on small portions at a time to protect our hearing. I always felt uneasy knowing this scene was coming up, as it was intended to be an auditory assault – something we thought we could get away with because of its brief duration.
Mia is haunted by the dead in reality. In terms of the mix, how did you use the surrounds to full effect to scare the audience or keep them on edge?
EB: In one scene in particular, we used the surrounds to delineate Mia’s possession space by panning a spirit voice into the back surround. This scene otherwise had minimal sonic elements, focusing on the eerie sound of a spirit humming a musical phrase. The picture cuts from Mia’s gaze in the rear direction to a darkened corner, where the humming originated and it almost feels, from an audience perspective, that you are in the room with Mia and something is lurking in the back corner over your shoulder. This buildup leaves the audience anxiously waiting for the reveal, knowing something is about to appear.
…it almost feels, from an audience perspective, that you are in the room with Mia and something is lurking in the back corner over your shoulder.
Likewise, in the hospital bathroom sequence, we used the surrounds to intensify Mia’s vulnerability and fear. The flickering lights and bathroom ambience fill the surrounds and immerse the audience in her disorienting experience as she tries to identify who’s behind the door. The creaking door and the pounding, which pans around the room, maintain Mia’s perspective and grow increasingly louder, culminating in an explosive final bang as the door swings open to reveal a nearly silent cubicle, heightening the suspense.
‘Talk to Me’ final mix with (L to R): Pete Smith, Emma Bortignon, Danny Philippou, Samantha Jennings, and Michael Philippou
The film had its world premiere at Sundance; did you do a re-mix for theatrical release?
EB: For the film to premiere at Sundance was truly thrilling! It felt like the perfect festival for Talk to Me, and we were excited to get the news of its acceptance. Thankfully, by that point, we had completed the final mix, so we did not need to rush to the finish line for the festival screening and revisit it for theatrical purposes. However, it’s worth noting that the final mix didn’t go as originally planned.
During the final mix, it became evident that the score wasn’t meeting our expectations despite attempts to edit it using the provided stems. We realized that significant changes were needed, leading to the decision to part ways with the composer. As a result, we opted to proceed with mixing the film without the score, which turned out to be a refreshing experience.
When both sound design and the score concentrate solely on…gruesome moments but neglect the emotional narrative, gaps in the overall experience are bound to emerge. And that’s the issue we faced.
In horror films, it’s crucial to establish a distinct boundary between the roles of the score and sound design to avoid conflicts in achieving the desired impact. When both sound design and the score concentrate solely on jump scares, intense impacts, and gruesome moments but neglect the emotional narrative, gaps in the overall experience are bound to emerge. And that’s the issue we faced.
After our initial pass of mixing without a score, we had a robust soundtrack, which included licensed music, and we had a clear understanding of the role the new score needed to play.
We took a break for four weeks while the new score was being composed and then reconvened to integrate this music into the mix. What worked wonderfully was that our new composer, Cornel Wilczek, had the final mix up to that point to work with as a reference. He knew precisely where improvements were needed and where things were already working well. When it was time to incorporate the score, everything fell into place seamlessly, allowing us to complete the second pass of the mix in just a few days.
One of the highlights of the film’s mix was the strong collaboration among the team. Danny and Michael’s deep understanding of the story and sound’s potential impact was pivotal. Samantha Jennings, one of our producers, played an essential role by providing valuable insights into when the sound design enhanced the characters and when it needed adjustment to maintain character focus. And, of course, Pete Smith and I, as the re-recording mixers, were responsible for funneling all this feedback and turning it into what you hear as a cohesive soundtrack.
What are you most proud of in terms of your sound work on Talk to Me?
EB: Now that the film has been released and we’re receiving lots of feedback, I’m most proud that the sound design appears to have effectively immersed the audience and intensified the film’s horror with some bold choices. And with the recent news that Talk To Me is A24’s highest-grossing genre film ever in the US, it makes me proud to have made a contribution to that success. I’m really happy for Danny and Michael, they deserve everything that comes their way.
A big thanks to Emma Bortignon for giving us a behind-the-scenes look at the sound of Talk to Me and to Jennifer Walden for the interview!
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